How Christians should think about the fall of a famous religious leader
NOTE: Some links contain explict details that may not be appropriate for all readers
Full report 2/9/21: https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/rzimmedia.rzim.org/assets/downloads/Report-of-Investigation.pdf
Interim report statement, 12/22/20: https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/rzimmedia.rzim.org/assets/downloads/2020-12-22+LMB+Ltr+to+Special+Cmte.pdf
RZIM Board statement, 12/23/20: https://www.rzim.org/read/rzim-updates/update-from-rzim-board-allegations-against-ravi-zacharias
Article from a RZIM staff member: https://www.christianpost.com/voices/catastrophic-betrayal-the-greatest-apologist-ravi-zacharias.html
Listen to the audio version here: http://theconqueringtruth.com/2021/02/is-ravi-zacharias-in-hell-ep-6-audio/
00:00:00 The Allegations
00:02:30 How Do We Know If It’s True?
00:10:26 What About David?
00:19:35 Could Zacharias Be Saved?
00:32:09 Celebrity Pastors
00:38:43 People Helped by Zacharias
00:46:43 Holding Leaders Accountable
00:57:00 Protecting Against False Teachers
Technical Director – Timothy Kaiser
Theme Music – Gabriel Hudelson
All I can say is that I’m glad I’m not his Judge.
Iniquity is sexual sin. Men LOVE sexual sin. Jesus says Depart from me you workers of iniquity I NEVER knew you.
Self control & love is a fruit of the spirit. Good deeds and sermons are just a noisy gong.
I Corinthians 5:11 warns not to associate or even eat with a fornicater who calls himself a believer.
It is not my call!
"Once saved always saved" is a false doctrine.
Judgement is only God’s call
Judgement lies with God only!
Your whole premis is not Christian and is not Biblical!!!! You might mean well, but should not judge!!
What you can discuss candidly is if something that was done is sinful or not. What you simply cannot say or speek out over anyone is judgement!!
The man on the cross with Jesus was a murderer, yet saved because Jesus judged it so! And remember. the cross and victory over death/hell was not yet accomplished! Also, all people have sin, even after one has given your hart to God and believe in the grace that one receives through Jesus. Through the relationship with Jesus and living a renewed life, one "improves" steadily and methodically.
One does not suddenly stop sinning after one has given one's live to Jesus. When one accepts Jesus as one's saviour and believes in the price He payed, one does not automatically stop sinning.
We all require the grace and forgiveness from God, through Jesus. What you may say is that if, what Ravi did is true, his behaviour deserves death/hell. As all sin do! What you should not even discuss, is where Ravi is now!
IT IS NOT FOR US as HUMANS and surely not Christians, to say where he is now! That is wrong and not in our power!! It does not belong with a Christian to make that "judgement"! Judgement lies with God.
One does not have a heavier or greater sin just because one is a preacher or stupid "celebrity"! Your human created "title or position" is irrelevant!
Also, in this discussion it was repeatedly said that an adulterer and murderer will not go to heaven. Yes, that is true. However, once any sinner believes and accepts Jesus and then lives as a believer, by starting to walk that pathway, the sins of the past is forgiven!! Jesus died a death on the cross and was risen on the third day, precisely so that "all" sinners and all sin can be forgiven and one can enter into heaven!
Simple, don't complicate it! Live and speak love, not hate or judgement!!!!!
No he is not in hell. But he has lost some rewards but he is not in hell. Read your bible folks. The guy having sexual relationship with his mother , Paul said kick him from the church to be handed over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh so that his soul may be saved. Strange ravi got cancer and died in a relative quick time,
Why are this people discussing a dead man…. He goes to hell or heaven non of your filthy business. You all are wolves in sheep's clothing
If based on his righteousness Yes. If based on His Righteousness No.
People cannot out sin Christ's Attonement. Forgiveness and Salvation is available IF it is applied and Trusted on alone.
There are many Christians who are into adultery because of no knowledge ..or have not been preached on about its consequences. So let's not judge now on Ravis soul situation..that's between God and him . Now because he was a centre of being a pastor know to the world is been picked up on his sin. Satan knows how to deceive a Christian..so let's hold the discussion without a judgement. The best is the discussion was required so we are trained to avoid..which cannot be avoided.
We dont know Ravi's heart and if he repented before he passed and made right with God.
Ravi Zacharias ' sad and hypocritical life is a reminder to all in ministry. It is possible to be effective and win many, yet in the end, hear the words of our Lord say, " Depart from me, l never knew you."
Ravi is not in hell, but in heaven. He saved people than he offended God. If he were a catholic, I would have been confident that he he is in purgatory.
I don’t what church you guys belong to, but true Christianity holds that not all sins are not the same.
You said “the point of this is to not know where Ravi is.”
But your tittle of the video says something else.
Not watching this panel discussion. Only here to comment seeing the title. Don't waste your time and the time of your audience. There's also a raceism angle to it with competitors like John MacArthur and others involved who felt slighted by the popularity of RZ. The man is dead and not around to answer the allegations. He may have erred greviously. But no one is in a position to pass judgment.
Nope not in hell. Just dead like all of the people that died before him. Just one more dead predator.
I am rather puzzled by this discussion. If Ravi Zacharias was one of the elect, his works – whether we judge them good or bad – would have no effect on his salvation. To suggest otherwise would be to cast doubt on a fundamental Christian doctrine.
Strange topic to discuss
I pray for you all .. we just talking about this I hear so much judgment and self righteousness just dripping from your mouths.. gossiping about Joel ..
I hope you all see the errors in your ways .
He ain't in it.
We are suppose to be innocent as doves and wise as serpents. I believe these men are true Christians, but foolish to a degree (like any of us can be from time to time). After listening to this conversation, it's clear none of them looked "deeply" into the evidence. They took it on face value and began their judgment in the form of debating whether Ravi is in hell or not. (The title of this video just feels wrong). This panel seems to have forgotten that Satan is at work in the world, too. He is the deceiver of the whole world and the author of confusion. The only way I can reconcile this is to include the devil. The devil has his seed in the world. Let's not forget about the workers of iniquity; the children of disobedience. I discovered the truth of God about 10 years ago, because I discovered how Satan operates. I made a film about it: The Anatomy of a Great Deception. Satan has more than enough power to produce a few false claimants and a law firm that does his bidding. Miller & Martin (the firm that investigated this claim) made provably false claims in their report. Why? Perhaps, this was an assignment from/for some Secret Society members (on Satan's behalf) to get thousands of people to be divided and question their own faith, and Ravi's message, and the Holy Spirit, and Jesus & God, too. If so, these guys took the bait. I'm not claiming to know the truth of what happened, or whether Ravi is in heaven or hell. I don't know. And on a personal level, it seems wrong to dwell on that, while freely admitting I'm still learning scripture. Nonetheless, the odds that these men are (inadvertently) advancing Satan's agenda is above zero. This story is too big for some amateurs, who didn't even look deeply into the evidence, to be discussing it as authorities of any sort. It's VERY possible the only sin committed here was by these men, Ravi's accusers and Miller & Martin Law. Our "true" enemy is a MASTER at making the innocent look guilty, and the guilty look innocent, not to mention making good seem evil, and evil seem good. Heck, he got people to crucify the Son of God, and mar his name in many circles to this day. For these men to have this conversation without a mention of how Satan operates deserves a minor rebuke in my humble opinion. I am still working out my salvation with fear and trembling. I confess (on-air all the time no less) that I can barely go a few hours without a sin of some sort. FYI: Even a foolish thought is a sin. If so, it's possible these men sinned by expressing their thoughts about this. Scarier still, if Ravi was innocent of these claims, and had the Holy Spirit in him the entire time, are they blaspheming the Holy Spirit – the only unforgivable sin? Yikes is all I can say. Let's hold our judgment and recognize that Jesus told us the truth about Satan, too. I thank God we are saved by grace and not works. What kind of fruit did Ravi bear? He played a minor role in my salvation, but with others, Ravi's words (which I believe can only come from the Holy Spirit) brought many to Jesus. Yes, the flip side means if Hitler sincerely repented in the bunker we might see him in heaven, which might be as uncomfortable as thinking a man who brought millions to Jesus, like Ravi, might be in hell. We can play if safe by praying that justice comes to all involved and the truth be revealed. That way none of us make the mistake of judging incorrectly – because we leave it up to God – the only one I have faith in to judge properly. Lord, please come quickly – it's getting hairy down here!
As a secularist areligious man, I’d like to share my thoughts. All I see here is a Christian community trying to either rationalize or condemn the actions of a man who used his iconic power for personal gain. Yet, notice how regardless whether Ravi was a saint or an underground serial killer, none of you would ever use it as evidence to question the Christian faith itself. My point being, religion (let alone Christianity) is never falsifiable; there’s no hypothetical scenario to imagine any of you ever being wrong about God, which is why we are left here with arguments and debates on how to rationalize the Christian faith with our human minds.
If God descended from the heavens right now and proclaimed himself as God, I would have no choice but to drop to my knees and say that I was wrong and beg for forgiveness. Now the question is, what hypothetical situation has to happen before your eyes to say that YOU were wrong and God is nonexistent?
We don’t know. That’s the answer.
True. God knows. If you want more info Mike Winger goes through the Independent investigation undertaken by RZIM.
Our carnality is more than skin deep and I am not naive. Still, my hope is that he was understood his sin, sincerely repented, and asked God's forgiveness. God is capable. But men are weak.
Ravi never left the Hindu religion. He used Christianity to get rich and fulfill his canal lusts.
Thank you for facing and discussing this. Mike Winger also does a masterful job of discussion
Can we claim to be better than Ravi Zacharias? We’re all sinners! We all deserve judgement!
…for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God…
It’s by the grace of God that we may be saved through His son Lord Jesus Christ! We’ve broken each one of the 10 Commandments!
For whosoever shall keep the whole law and yet offend on one point, he is guilty of all.
And to question whether Ravi is in hell is not for us to surmise. God is the supreme judge. God makes this perfectly clear:
Peter Asks Jesus About John
20 Peter, having turned around, sees the disciple[a] following them whom Jesus was loving— the one who also leaned back on His chest during dinner and said, “Lord, who is the one handing You over?” 21 So Peter, having looked-at this one, says to Jesus, “Lord, and what of this one? 22 Jesus says to him, “If I want him to remain until I come, what is it to you? You be following Me!”
We need to be concerned that we ourselves are saved! Also:
How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' while there is still a beam in your own eye?
You hypocrite! First take the beam out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
The victim blaming in this video is disgusting.
So if Ravi is in hell…why would they continue to publish his books?
“Now class, I want you to know that this book was generated by the gifting of the Holy Spirit at work in Ravi Zacharias…but he is burning in hell right now.”
What a victory satan would be able to gloat over. “I took the premier apologist of the 20th century to hell.!”
However, as egregious and hideous as his actions were…there’s always this..
“I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.” I Cor 5:5
Boy are these guys twisting in the wind.
Matthew 12:31 Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.
Jeremiah 4:4 Circumcise yourselves to the LORD; remove the foreskin of your hearts, O men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem; lest my wrath go forth like fire, and burn with none to quench it, because of the evil of your deeds.”
Jeremiah tries to warn his fellow Israelites that they won't be saved just because they are circumcised physically, but that its more important that their "hearts" be circumcised. We are all entitled to believe what we want from the scriptures based on our own interpretation. Mine is that salvation is not guaranteed because you asked Jesus into your heart once. The Israelites thought they could do whatever they wanted – sacrifice babies by throwing them into a giant furnace in the belly of an idol statue? We will still go to heaven right? Because we cut the tips of our penises off? Get real.
God is the only judge, and if Ravi is in heaven and is forgiven, God must have good reason for that. If I had to guess, Ravi is burning in hell, because he committed the gravest of sins by being a false prophet. Every time he abused a woman and had her pray with him after to thank God for their sex, he was certainly blaspheming the holy spirit. His behavior was abhorrent, and in my opinion, Satanic. He deserves to spend eternity with his true "lord".
SO WHY IS EVERYONE JUDGING RAVI, THE ONLY JUDGE IS GOD, NOTHING CAN SEPARTE US FROM THE LOVE OF GOD, JESUS, IS THE ONLY SAVIOR NOT OUR WORKS, GOOD OR BAD, WE ARE SAVED BY GRACE SO THAT NO ONE CAN BOAST, AND NOT BY WORKS. I DON'T SEE PRECHURES JUDGING SAMSON, OR SOLOMON, OR DAVID, FOR BEING WHORE MONGERS, MURDERS, ADULTERORS AND FORNICATOR, AND IF GOD HIMSELF SAID DAVID, WAS A MAN AFTER HIS OWN HEART, WHO ARE WE JUDGE. WHAT RAVI DID IS BETWEEN HIM AND GOD, AND HOW FUNNY WOULD IT BE, IF WE END UP SEEING RAVI, OR ANYONE ELSE WHO IS FLAWED ON THIS EARTH IN HEAVEN ONE DAY.